INTERVIEW with Jason Hickel: "Degrowth is a gateway into socialist thought for the 21st century"
Deep Dives
Explore related topics with these Wikipedia articles, rewritten for enjoyable reading:
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Unequal exchange
15 min read
Hickel explicitly discusses how high-income economies rely on 'massive net-appropriation from the global South' and mentions overcoming 'unequal exchange and imperialist dynamics' as a key challenge for degrowth theory. Understanding the economic theory behind unequal exchange provides essential context for his argument.
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Steady-state economy
18 min read
The steady-state economy is the foundational economic concept underlying degrowth theory. While the interview discusses degrowth extensively, readers would benefit from understanding the earlier theoretical framework developed by economists like Herman Daly that degrowth builds upon.
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Productivism
10 min read
Hickel critiques 'left-productivism' as a strain of socialist thought that 'ignores imperialism and ignores ecology.' Understanding productivism as an ideology helps readers grasp the specific intellectual tradition degrowth is arguing against within socialist discourse.
This conversation between JASON HICKEL, professor at the Institute for Environmental Science & Technology (ICTA-UAB) at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, and ANDREW AHERN, a New England-based ecosocialist writer and activist, marked the 5-year anniversary of Jason’s book, Less is More. It ranges widely over debate in ecosocialist thought and strategy, as well as the current terrain of class and environmental struggle. It took place over Zoom in late May 2025, with follow up questions via email in early April.
ANDREW AHERN: It has been five years since your book, Less is More, was published. In that time we have seen degrowth enter into mainstream debates around the climate and ecological crisis, thanks in large part to the book. Looking back over these past five years, what is your impression of how degrowth ideas have been received – both the good and the bad? Did you expect Less is More to spark such an international debate?
JASON HICKEL: Well, it’s been a wild ride. And very interesting to watch. Over the past several years degrowth has become very well-established in environmental science. There has been an astonishing increase in scientific research that uses and improves upon degrowth frameworks, so the empirical case is now stronger than ever, and the evidence base has expanded a lot since I wrote the book. Degrowth also has substantial uptake among climate activists, and on the socialist left – by which I mean, the concept is part of their analytical framework even if the word is not deployed in public-facing communications. But it’s not just Less is More, many people have contributed to bringing degrowth ideas to mainstream attention, and there have been several books published on this topic in the past several years.
But degrowth is an anti-capitalist position, firmly rooted in ecosocialist analysis. The core of ecosocialism is that we should democratize control over production so that we can organize it around ensuring human well-being and ecological stability. Degrowth has inspired the ire of those who consciously align with capitalism because they recognize that it represents socialist ideas breaking through into the mainstream. So they single it out for attack. In some cases this has led to real fireworks. And I think the diagnosis is correct. For people who are broadly part of the climate movement, the case for degrowth is extremely compelling. And once you start thinking, okay, how can we actually
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