Another Talk With Martin Wolf
Deep Dives
Explore related topics with these Wikipedia articles, rewritten for enjoyable reading:
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Viktor Orbán
15 min read
Krugman directly compares Trump's authoritarian trajectory to Orbán's consolidation of power in Hungary, citing how Orbán maintained broad public support during his 'extended takeover' - understanding Orbán's specific methods of democratic backsliding provides essential context for evaluating the comparison
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Democratic backsliding
12 min read
The entire conversation centers on the concept of 'speedrunning a transition into one-party, non-democratic rule' - this Wikipedia article covers the political science framework for understanding how democracies erode, with case studies from Hungary, Poland, and other countries referenced in the discussion
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Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
15 min read
Krugman mentions the CDC alongside NIH as institutions where 'they've laid off anybody who knew anything' - understanding the CDC's role, history, and organizational structure helps readers grasp the institutional stakes of the personnel changes being discussed
Too disrupted to set up an interview this week. But I did do another talk with Martin Wolf of the FT. Here’s the video; transcript below
TRANSCRIPT
Wolf Well, Paul. Hello. How are you?
Krugman I’m good. How are you, Martin?
Wolf I’m feeling pretty good. Let’s talk about where we are with our favourite villain, Donald Trump or President Trump, as he should be called. Now, we’re getting towards the end of a year, and I get the impression from reading your Substack that you’re feeling that things are going so badly, as it were. And the American people have really begun to notice this.
And maybe things aren’t quite as grim. At least they’re grim, but the grimness
implies maybe things will get better in the not incredibly distant future. So overall, how are you feeling?
Krugman Well, I’m less terrified than I was. I mean, if you’re... let’s be serious here.
What is clearly the agenda? I mean, this is not a normal presidency. This is not normal politics in the United States. What we have is a group of would be authoritarians trying to speedrun a transition into one party, non-democratic rule. It’s clear that the goal was to by - before anybody had a chance really to stand up to them to end US democracy more or less permanently. I mean, that’s not hyperbole. That’s just where we are. And the good news is, it does not seem to be going well, or at least it’s not going according to schedule. People like Orban in Hungary or Putin in his early years had broad public support during their extended takeovers. Trump’s support has cratered. If you had doubts about the polling, these elections in New Jersey and Virginia that we had early in November said, oh, no, the polling is right, if anything, it’s understating how much the public now loathes Donald Trump. Now, that’s not necessarily enough. There are still a lot of craven politicians and craven institutions. At least the momentum has slowed. Now, whether we can actually turn this around, ask me in a couple of years.
Wolf The big point you make there is one I’ve been completely convinced of for a very long time. In fact, even in 2016, I think I’ve noted before that I fear that if he were allowed to, that was exactly where Donald Trump was ...
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